The Full Desk Experience

Neal Osler [00:00:00]:
We always talk about how sometimes candidates aren't very good at writing resumes. Well, sometimes our clients aren't very good at writing job descriptions. And so we've had some of our account managers do what Chris is talking about, where they'll record their conversation with the hiring manager and then take those notes and run it into AI and it'll spit back out a more detailed job description. And then he passes it back to the client and said, is this what you're looking for? And you're right. I think our clients probably have had more aha moments than we have. From a. From a perspective of that's exactly what I want. Well, then that helps our recruiters go out and find those kind of people, and that also helps narrow down their searches.

Kortney Harmon [00:00:45]:
Hey, guys.

Kortney Harmon [00:00:46]:
Kortney Harmon, host of fde. We're bringing you a special series of episodes called fde. Those are going to be highlights from our recent virtual conference where hundreds of you join us for an incredible event focused on boosting revenue for 2025. Each of these sessions is packed with valuable insights, expert discussions, and actionable strategies to help you drive growth in your business.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:13]:
Whether you missed the live event or.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:15]:
Want to revisit each session, we've got you covered. We're going to drop each of these 10 live events to wrap up our year and kick off the new year.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:27]:
Right.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:27]:
So let's dive into today's session and uncover the key take that will propel your success in the coming year. Stay tuned and let's dive in.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:39]:
I'm so happy that you're here. I would love if we could go round robin just to introduce who you guys are. Obviously, I see on your profiles here that you where you're from, but we're also going to do this on the podcast. So I'd love to say what your role is, what company you're from and kind of what industry you serve. If we could do that. You want to kick us off, Neil?

Neal Osler [00:01:58]:
Sure. I'm the director of operations for syllogistics in the St. Louis area. We specialize in IT staffing. We've got about 125 people on billing. And I know we're going to talk about AI, which is a crazy thing right now, but I've been here 25 years. That's about it.

Kortney Harmon [00:02:15]:
I love it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Chris, you want to go next?

Chris Allaire [00:02:20]:
Yeah. So, Chris Allaire, Founder CEO, Al Verity, Technology Staff so I've been in the tech staffing world for almost 30 years, specialized in New York City for almost 20. We were one of those stories. We went remote in 2020. Never look back. I now live in South Carolina because the winners in New York are just so much fun. So that's everything about New York. I'm done now.

Chris Allaire [00:02:46]:
Yeah. Contract, full time staffing, contingent retain, executive kind of everything and anything along the technical area I've been, I've been involved with since the dot com boom and bus and, and everything else associated with it, including whatever the hell you want to say. This is going on right now.

Kortney Harmon [00:03:06]:
So that's fair. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Don't you crazy. I love it. And Chris has actually been on the podcast before. I have picked his brain multiple times. I think last time I talked to you, you were in the car on a family trip and I was waiting.

Chris Allaire [00:03:18]:
A car family trip. Which I'm super appreciative by the way for doing that.

Kortney Harmon [00:03:22]:
No worries. Justin also has been on the podcast. Neil, I feel like you have to come on the podcast individually now too. So let's just sign it up now. But Neil or Justin, give us your overview.

Justin bellante [00:03:34]:
Yeah. Hi guys. My name is Justin Bellante. I am one of the co founders here at Titan Placement Group. I've been in business for about three years now. We are permanent placement. We are health care specific and then we're a little bit more niche down. We do primarily community based nonprofits.

Justin bellante [00:03:53]:
So community health centers, federally qualified health centers, mostly primary care, behavioral and dental. Been in the business for 12 years and you know, a little hubris. Just thought we could do a little better and so here we are.

Kortney Harmon [00:04:09]:
I love it. And obviously we're going to talk about AI. So I'm going to go around Robin and I just kind of want to know, let's start first, like maybe your aha moment, like how do you feel about where we are with AI, what it looks like. And I know this could be a very vague rabbit hole but Justin, I'm going to kick it back to you first. How are you feeling about AI within the staffing recruiting world that we're in? Any feelings towards it right now, where we are in this transition?

Justin bellante [00:04:37]:
Yeah, no dichotomy of emotions. Certain days I feel very optimistic and then there are other days where very overwhelmed, you know, by a lot of the changes that they've made and kind of some of the directions that some, some of the AI platforms are going. Ultimately though, like I think I do err more on the optimism side though as far as like how I'm feeling a lot of changes A lot of doom and gloom out there, but I'm. I'm very confident that it's gonna be a positive shift for our workforce, for sure.

Kortney Harmon [00:05:10]:
I'm going to come back and I'm going to ask you what you're using here in a little bit, but I love it. Thank you. I feel like I'm consuming content all day, every day about AI just because of what my job is. I've had conversations with us about Chris, just a perspective. And I will tell you, I can't imagine doing all of that same stuff while you guys are running desks, running teams, managing operations, doing all the things. I can only imagine how overwhelming it is. So I love your optimism, Chris. Give me your thoughts.

Chris Allaire [00:05:38]:
I'm going to be polite. I hate it. I'm so sick of it. I can't think straight anymore. I think we're all sitting around still trying to find problems for this thing to solve. It's on the operations side of the business. It's fantastic. I got to tell you, it's like my two favorite things now.

Chris Allaire [00:05:54]:
I've leaned on that. It never gets taken from me. I don't know what I'm going to do. Is my Gemini note taker is just my, like, Achilles heel. Everything I do is a Google Meet. It takes all my notes. For me, I can focus on the conversations now. I don't have to this weird typing while you're talking, and someone says something, you're like, wait a minute, say that again.

Chris Allaire [00:06:13]:
And they're like, I don't really remember what I said, so. And I have ChatGPT trained. I have folders for all my items in there. So I have it trained on how to interpret the entire transcription from Gemini into, hey, I just had an awesome interview with Kortney. Give me the real version of what Kortney does. And it spits out this beautiful, elegant. Again, it takes the training. It's like a pet where you got to teach it what to do, but it spits out this beautiful, elegant summary for me of what Kortney does and then some key interview takeaways.

Chris Allaire [00:06:47]:
And I'm using that. And I'm like, great. Now that goes into my ats, and when I'm sending candidates over, it's like, there's a resume, however, you know, resumes. That's great. Take a look at my interview notes. Take a look at the notes from the transcription that I had for my interview with this person. And I've had yet to have a client turn on and say, like, nah, Everybody has turned around. Like, wow, this is you've really enlightened me to like what this person actually does.

Chris Allaire [00:07:14]:
So from an aha moment, like those where I realized, like, man, this is. That is some good stuff and you've got the task and you've got. Those are the things that can help you stay organized. Those things I like about it. I have a lot of things about it that are being. Everyone's claiming they're using in the recruiting space that I have some brothers on. And I'm going to walk away from.

Kortney Harmon [00:07:36]:
That for a second, not as optimistic. Okay, fair. Neil, tell me where you stand with operations over there.

Neal Osler [00:07:43]:
Well, I think the biggest advantage that we've seen with it is speed to execution, especially on the front end side. I think our recruiters are finding that they're saving more time on the front end and finding the people they need. And then our value add is how we present this candidate to our clients. I agree with Chris. Since we've been using it, we're having a higher success rate, I guess, if that's the right way. Probably from the, from a resume, resume perspective, summaries. Right. I mean, we use copilot and people are very challenged writing summaries.

Neal Osler [00:08:21]:
But using copilot to help create a new summary based on the resume, it's been incredible.

Kortney Harmon [00:08:29]:
Are you saying the built in create copilot? Is that what you're talking about?

Neal Osler [00:08:32]:
Yes.

Chris Allaire [00:08:33]:
Yeah.

Kortney Harmon [00:08:33]:
Okay. I just wanted to. I wanted to verify. I didn't because I know people would probably ask. So you're using that. That's built in because it's using your data. So I love that. Is there any aha moments from anybody? Like, Chris, you just kind of talked about one.

Kortney Harmon [00:08:46]:
But like any aha moments when you realize that AI was going to transform maybe our industry and or your processes in your organization?

Justin bellante [00:08:56]:
Oh, yeah, sure, I'll chime in. So, yeah, no, there's several aha moments. But for me, like, we're pretty BD heavy over here. And so like it's sometimes like putting a job description together, like very similar to what Chris was saying. Like it might have taken me 20, 30 minutes to do a real detailed, accurate job description. And like we were getting, you know, 10 job orders plus week per person. And like, so these are hours and hours and hours of time that now I consider to be like wasted time or time that's reinvested back into production time. Because I can take a brand new client who gives me five job orders.

Justin bellante [00:09:32]:
Do the. The meeting notes very similar. Take their internal job description, their benefit packet, any additional information that they share with me, put it into a custom chatgpt and boom. Spits out a job description that's in our format in 15 seconds. I'd say like 30% of my week probably was. Was just admin, clerical, putting details together on a job description. And now I have like 12 hours a week back into my work week. So big aha moment for sure.

Kortney Harmon [00:10:01]:
I love that. Chris, you were going to say something too.

Chris Allaire [00:10:04]:
I'm going to echo the job description thing because I got to tell you, the having a meet with a client and then having transcribed notes and I took their job description with all my notes and I put it into chatgpt and I spit it back out and I sent them this co company so I could retain, you know, pretty large search for them. And I was like, hey, by the way, you know, I took your notes and I took your JD and I turned it into this. And CEO, the founder and the CEO were both like, all of them are like, oh my God, how did you do that? Because I'm amazing, right? I'm like, no, man. Like, this is like, this is the tools that we're using in recruiting these days. This is, these are not just recruiting, but in general, like, these are the things that we're using it for. And it's like, oh my God. And I'm like, yeah. And this is how I interview people this time.

Chris Allaire [00:10:48]:
Do the summary. So the aha moments on the positive have really been around, around that we've had, I think like anybody else, you know, just a. We found some moments in the negative.

Kortney Harmon [00:10:59]:
I need to get to all the positives and then we'll come back. Go ahead.

Chris Allaire [00:11:02]:
I can say this is like if you don't know what you're looking at at a resume. And I know people don't really want to hear this, but if you're looking for someone with 15 years of manufacturing experience, and let's just hypothetically say you don't know all the manufacturing companies that are out there. If you dump a resume in there, you're like, tell me about like the experience this person has in manufacturing. It spits out. This person has 18 plus years they worked with.

Justin bellante [00:11:25]:
Boom, boom, boom.

Chris Allaire [00:11:25]:
And I'm like, these are beautiful because these are companies, some of these companies, there's a lot of organizations that we just never heard of before, had no idea who these people are, what they do. So before I even get into it, it can analyze something for me and then spit it back out to me. And I'm like, wow, this is like now I'M really looking forward to talking about your manufacturing experience.

Kortney Harmon [00:11:45]:
I love it. Neil, I'm going to come to you in a second, but I want to ask a follow up question with what you said, Chris, because you said the client that you sent this to, they were like, hot dang, how did you do this? Do you see the tools that you're using in your stack as a recruiting organization? Do you see that as a value add to be able to tell this is how you work differently? Is that something that you're advertising to say I work differently because of that?

Chris Allaire [00:12:10]:
It's a part of my closing package, if you will. This is how I do things. This is what you're going to get from me. So that way when they're getting it, they understand like, wow, this is where this came from. This isn't some just like arbitrary, you know, filter thing. I'm like, no, I'm taking all the transcribed notes and I'm putting them in there and I'm letting it tell me what this person really did or how, what we really talked about. So if you have any questions, there's your answers. And it's not from a resume or some generated thing.

Chris Allaire [00:12:40]:
It's like it's an actual real conversation with a human being, which is where I got this from.

Kortney Harmon [00:12:46]:
I love that. Neil, any aha moments from the positive on you from your office?

Neal Osler [00:12:50]:
One of our senior recruiters, he jumped into AI real early. And the first time I sat down with him and he showed me how he was using it, I was like, wow, why isn't everybody doing this? And even going back to what Chris said about job descriptions, we always talk about how sometimes candidates aren't very good at writing resumes. Well, sometimes our clients aren't very good at writing job descriptions. And so we've had some of our account managers do what Chris is talking about, where they'll record their conversation with the hiring manager and then take those notes and run it into AI and it'll spit back out a more detailed job description. And then he passes it back to the client and said, is this what you're looking for? And you're right. I think our clients probably have had more aha moments than we have. From a. From a perspective of that's exactly what I want.

Neal Osler [00:13:45]:
Well, then that helps our recruiters go out and find those kind of people. And it also helps narrow down their searches.

Kortney Harmon [00:13:52]:
I think that's amazing. Okay, let's start with you, Chris. What are the aha's? And a bad way to keep it.

Chris Allaire [00:13:59]:
Simple and Polite, Too much reliance on it to do the job. I've been in arguments, if you will, with other people, like, no, our AI bot will just interview candidates. I'm like, you say what? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, this is like, I'm in the tech space too. And there's a lot of these deep fakes and whatever you want to call them out there. It's fake candidates that we've all. I don't know how many people bump into this stuff, but we've opened it frequently. And I had my partner talking to a very expensive engineer who theoretically is coming out of DraftKings and as he's talking to this person, he's like, some doesn't smell right.

Chris Allaire [00:14:33]:
You know, something smell right and starts digging into it and then come to find out. The guy literally crumbled on the interview of like, I don't actually do any of this. I live in Romania. I'm really sorry. And it was like, okay. So I look at that. I'm like, there's. I like all of us want to make our job a little bit easier.

Chris Allaire [00:14:54]:
We all want to give ourselves some time back. No one enjoys working 15 hour days. Well, sometimes they do. But the reliance on that. This is going to do all, all of it for us. It's going to email everybody, it's going to find everybody, our response rates are going to be through the roof. It's going to be amazing. It's like, well, I hate to tell you this, but like, everyone's doing that.

Chris Allaire [00:15:14]:
So now your response rates are lower, spam is higher. I've got it now filtered where my. It pushes all my stuff into different folders. I don't see it anymore. So thank God I had to clean that up. And I'm like, it's just. And the hard part out there in recruiting, in my opinion, has always been cutting through the white noise to get to engagement. And what I've seen is because of these tools, right now it's even more difficult to engage because trust is a hard thing.

Chris Allaire [00:15:39]:
You don't know if email is from the real person, if it's from a real domain. So kind of a shorter version of like all the things that I've been seeing happen and the feedback getting from people in the market these days.

Kortney Harmon [00:15:52]:
I don't disagree with you. I really think it's as much as it is good to help us do some things, it's also going to be harder to get a new person on the phone than it has been in the past because I don't know about you, I've gotten emails. I live in a very, very small town in the middle of a cornfield in Ohio and someone's like, oh, my parents met in your town at this restaurant. I'm like, that doesn't exist. I've lived here all of my life. It didn't exist. So while it's amazing that it's writing these emails, it's writing incorrect information and it also is JD in the industry that doesn't want to answer a phone or pick up a call anyway to maybe making that a little harder for us in our industry. Justin, what do you think?

Justin bellante [00:16:32]:
No, that's actually the direction that I was going to go is that, you know, we've noticed that. So like we do a lot of outreach and we do call, text, email, LinkedIn, that's our main format. And we've noticed that response rates for email, emails and texts have gone down dramatically. And I think it's this inundation of AI every. You know, it's like. And like to your point, like a lot of the information that it generates is not true. It's still chatgpt, still hallucinating anywhere between 10 to 15% of the time. And if you're not an expert, like if you're a junior recruiter and you're.

Justin bellante [00:17:11]:
You take a detailed job description. I've done it. Even just recently I did it. I'm in healthcare, but I'm working on a director of construction position. Took my notes, starting to cree late and it added like three requirements that were like, that weren't requirements. It didn't. That were never on any of the notes or anything at all. And so like people are getting hit up with the wrong information.

Justin bellante [00:17:30]:
And then also to Chris's point, like the call reluctance, it's made the team, I think sometimes they, they rely on it a little bit too much to where like it's more automation than AI, but like the tools, like leaning on the tools too much. But recruiting is about like connecting live communication with human beings. That's the way I've always thought of it.

Kortney Harmon [00:17:51]:
Yeah, I mean I remember training and it was like you had to like psych yourself out. No one wanted to pick up the phone. And so like it was like you have to make eight calls before 8am I gotta do what? Yeah, you just gotta break, break it, go for it. And we're not doing that because there are so many people that want to spam email thousands of emails every single day. Cause they don't wanna pick up the Phone. I think it's. It's making that divide a little bit bigger, probably. Neil, what do you think? Any aha moments on the bad side?

Neal Osler [00:18:17]:
You guys, it's like I always tell the recruiters, this is a great tool, but to use an old saying, you know, you have to inspect what you expect. And so you have to make sure that you're going through it and making sure that whatever is producing for you, is that really what you're looking for? There's still tweaks that you have to go through. Like we use it to take a job description and create bullion searches based on a job description. But sometimes you have to in and tweak those. Same thing with. When you're asking it to tweak a resume for somebody, for a candidate, you still got to go through it. You still got to make sure that it's what you're looking for. But I do have to say it does save a lot of time.

Kortney Harmon [00:18:58]:
Yeah, no, I agree. Especially like we had talked about, I don't know if any of you are using the agents with crew late at all, but, like, the mere fact that some candidates are being brought to you based on the job description that you're putting in, you're still going to have to inspect them, you're still going to have to look through, vet them. But the fact that it creates the Boolean search or does the matching on the back end, you still have to vet. Nothing is going to be perfect, But I love it. Let's talk. I want to know how AI has changed your team structures. Are you hiring different roles in your organization? Are you reshaping existing positions? Are you changing your processes? Any. Any thoughts on how it's altered your existing teams? You want to go first?

Neal Osler [00:19:42]:
Not yet. We haven't done anything yet to change our team structure.

Chris Allaire [00:19:46]:
Okay, Chris, a long time ago, I used to tell people, like, how often are you on Google and our job? If the answer is not pretty much all the time, then I'm like, you better get used to it because you're going to hear things, especially in the tech space. You're going to hear letters and acronyms and some weird things, some weird vocabularies, like, oh, we're building, you know, a sandbox with ice cream sandwich. You're like, wait, what?

Neal Osler [00:20:08]:
What?

Chris Allaire [00:20:09]:
And you, you've. And now you're Googling puppet and chef, and you're coming up with the chef from the Muppets, and you're like, I don't understand what any of this stuff is. So now Fast forward to where we are. I just, I'm like, you better be versed in it. Like, what is your tool of. Of choice? How often are you on it and how well versed are you in it to understand what it's doing? And so for me, like, I just hired somebody literally on board this morning and I'm like, and part of my interview process was, what are you doing? What are you writing with? Are you producing content with it? Are you like, how much? So you need to be well versed in it. No different than the years of past. You to understand Google, you have to understand how to search.

Kortney Harmon [00:20:52]:
Do you have any stipulations on what people are using or do you try to make your. I don't want to say make like, because I don't want to be forced. Like, do you try to encourage your team? Like, this is a tool recommended for preference? Like, this is how you. Have you done any training on how to use those things? I mean, I don't think I go to Google anymore. I literally open my chat GPT or my cloud. I cheat on one or the other every now and again. But I like to go to them and I ask them questions. Because of the deep research aspect, I don't even go to Google anymore.

Chris Allaire [00:21:21]:
I know for a fact that Google search is down almost like 18 to 20%, maybe more than that. So what I do is I have the people that work for me. Everyone has their kind of preference. And what I like to do is like once a week. Mike, how are you using it? Explain to us what you're doing with it. So I, I've shown people recently, like, how I created all these folders and how I set up instructions. I have a guy that works with me who's a huge Perplexity fan. And I was like, I've never used Perplexity, but he shows, he's like, yeah, let me do a screen share of like, one of them.

Chris Allaire [00:21:48]:
And I'm always like, damn, that's kind of cool. And then like, so have I adapted to it? No, not yet. But I'm like, so I'm not. I'm like, I'm pretty agnostic. Like, I don't really care what you're using as long as you're using it for a benefit of the organization and to save you time, not to get sucked into the rabbit hole. Like, I've been on this thing for now, 40 minutes. I have no idea. Just what I do with my life.

Chris Allaire [00:22:12]:
Be careful with it. And if you really like it, explain to us what you did and how you did it and then kind of and let everybody else kind of decide what they want to do from there.

Kortney Harmon [00:22:22]:
I love it. Dilton, what about you?

Justin bellante [00:22:24]:
Did you guys hear about what happened with Perplexity three days ago? There's Comet. Basically bad actors were getting in there and basically they were making it. So that way if you were using it, some users, the agent was going into their banking information wiring like like thousands and thousands of dollars and I guess they knew about it for like several months and didn't tell anybody. They found out about it I think in March or something like that and they just released it like three days ago. So I was actually looking into using Perplexity until I learned about that today. But to each their own. This is the doom and gloom. They might already already have all of our information anyways but just heard that as far as how it affects our team.

Justin bellante [00:23:12]:
So yeah, it has it several different ways I think. When I first we first started this company I wanted everyone to work a 360 desk. Now with AI I don't necessarily need to be too concerned. So I wanted everyone generating tons of business all by themselves. Now that I've got those 12 hours back into my work week plus several other hours from all the other admin stuff I don't have to do, I can focus on generating new business. And I have team of recruiters now couldn't fill those needs and so I don't like pressure them as much to do bd, you know they can and I think the opportunity for doing it is a lot easier now and then on the flip side I think it allows us to when we go to hire new recruiters I don't have to put them in a box to do a specific thing. Like they have sales experience, they want to do sales, they can come in and hit the ground running on sales and we don't have to focus on the recruiting until they're ready and then we can speed up a lot of training and stuff like that too with AI. So I think that's kind of how it's affected us and talking about maybe even breaking it up into different sections like having sorcerers versus recruiters versus account managers versus sales guys and with the help of AI being able to really optimize those positions to ultimately generate more candidates, more clients, more job orders.

Kortney Harmon [00:24:36]:
I love it. I think that's great. Let's talk about the other side. So that's the people and let's talk about process and workflows like so I know Neil, you Said it hasn't really affected your processes, but I think what you are. You guys are doing. You all kind of gave me an example. Well, it's taking my notes. It's changing the job order.

Kortney Harmon [00:24:55]:
I guess it may not be standardized in your organization, but it could be. These are the way we're using them. So word note.

Chris Allaire [00:25:01]:
I've heard job orders.

Kortney Harmon [00:25:02]:
Is there anything else workflow wise where it's ingrained in your now processes that you're doing work differently?

Chris Allaire [00:25:09]:
I have a channel that I've kind of created and it's. For me, the biggest thing is task lists on. So I talk to it every day. You know, it's pathetic, but I do, you know, hey, what am I doing this morning? Right? And it'll help me outline the things that were like, oh, my man, thanks for reminding me about that. And at the end of the day I'm like, or I got all this, yada, yada, yada, what do I look like for tomorrow? And I know it's again, I'm. I'm a little embarrassed. So you kind of admit this out loud. But it's like, it's been a savior sometimes to like, help me out, like, keep me straight on some things.

Chris Allaire [00:25:43]:
I've also got a program to be like, don't, don't hate buddy me. Don't give me the like, oh, you're.

Neal Osler [00:25:47]:
The best guy ever.

Chris Allaire [00:25:48]:
Like, I don't need that. I'm like, choose me straight. I'm just like, I totally bumped him today. Screwed up. Yada, yada, yada. And it's like, all right, I got like, however, tomorrow, get your ass in here, let's go. We've got these things we gotta take care of. And I'm like, sweet, cool.

Kortney Harmon [00:26:02]:
So what are you using for that?

Chris Allaire [00:26:04]:
I use ChatGPT for that.

Kortney Harmon [00:26:05]:
Oh, you just use ChatGPT.

Chris Allaire [00:26:06]:
So, yeah, I've got it, like, really well. The dog is really well trained. It's a hunting dog for me. Now I'll put in something like, I need to know the top 25 companies in New York City that are doing X, Y&Z, PD&Q that have been in the press lately, that I can talk about something like AI Governance, for example, and it'll give me a list. And I'm like, great, Take this list, put it into an Excel spreadsheet for me. And I want a master list with Excel spreadsheets. And I want every single company tabulated at the bottom of it. Now, while you're forming this list for me, I want the company's website homepage, their careers page, and the LinkedIn page on this stuff for me.

Chris Allaire [00:26:48]:
And it will. It's sort of taking me like two weeks because I'm scatterbrained and ocd. So I'm like, I can't. Yeah. So, but it does it for me in a minute and a half. And now I've got it and I can share it with my team to be like, okay, here's boom. So if you have like a really like the most placeable candidate or high Canada or whatever term people using like all the marketing, not so much more marketing is available. But the, the ideas and the creativity has kind of all been formulated to people like, man, I just want this list.

Kortney Harmon [00:27:15]:
I'm like, I'm just amazing. That's. I think that was the first word phrase you use. I'm just amazing.

Chris Allaire [00:27:23]:
Amazing.

Kortney Harmon [00:27:24]:
I love that. Well, and that's amazing or that is amazing for the idea, like, of what information you can get as quickly as you can get it. I mean, you can understand whether it's. It's funding, it's candidates, it's whatever the information that you're trying to find in the deep research. Have you guys used the deep research on any of like the Chat GPT, the Gemini or anything like that? Have you used those yet?

Justin bellante [00:27:46]:
Yeah, I do pretty regularly, even for my own personal use. But I had one. So, like, I mean, I'm in healthcare, right? So the Big Beautiful Bill act is a big, big topic of discussion and the people who voted for it didn't even read it. And I didn't read it, but I could Summarize it with ChatGPT and get the Cliff Notes version. And the day it was executed, I wanted to know how this is going to affect my clients. And then I was able to reverse engineer, like, very, very valuable information that these people needed today. And I farmed that out to everyone who was a client and could be a potential client and like, was able to do that lickety split. And that's a huge value add that I'm the big proponent of.

Justin bellante [00:28:34]:
Give, give, give, ask if that makes sense. So that's one area where deep research really helps because not only does it dig on the article itself, but it'll dig out if it. So, like, it runs into a question, it'll. It'll go and do some digging on the question that it has rather than getting stuck, which has been really helpful, for sure.

Kortney Harmon [00:28:54]:
I love that you use that exact example because it was infamous for the idea of the clients that you were using at the time that they needed it and the information that they needed to hear without you having to sort through hundreds of thousands of pages and understanding. But you understood the impact and gave it to your people immediately.

Justin bellante [00:29:12]:
Oh, yeah, it took me 23 minutes, you know, of deep research while I was doing other stuff, you know, and that would have taken me. I don't think I would ever been able to have done that by myself. So it was like 8,000 pages. So there's no way. Yeah.

Kortney Harmon [00:29:25]:
And I think I can use an example outside. I mean, I use AI every day for work, but we have an Airbnb and a wedding venue. And I literally was like, here's where I live in Ohio and these are the areas that I live. Can you go compare wedding venues and pricing literally for a 90 mile radius? And it, it took six minutes to go through, but it gave me all the wedding venues, all the things. So same thing, your competitors, all the list, all the pricing, all the things that you needed within minutes. Now granted, it took six more minutes than the 30 seconds it usually takes, but the detailed information it gave you was, bar none. So why are you smiling, Chris?

Chris Allaire [00:30:01]:
Well, the six minutes, I mean, it's. Look at all the things you lost in that time. I mean, you got like, play with the dog, you can like say hi to the kids. Jesus, that's. Wow. So. But it's like, but if you were to do this stuff and like. And again, I'm like, there's a case news for it.

Chris Allaire [00:30:16]:
But I'm like, if you were to do this stuff on your own, Remember we used to do stuff on our own vacation venues or like where you're going to travel to or like, I want reviews on hotels. Oh my God. I mean, I'm not letting it book for me, but it's like, hey, we want to go to Costa Rica this fall. What are your thoughts? And it's like. And I'm like, this is freaking sweet. I'm like, okay, tighten up a little bit on the west coast. And yeah, I mean the language models are phenomenal because again, it's really trained on the English language. So now you're able to spit into it an English coherent sentence and it spits it back to you.

Chris Allaire [00:30:55]:
And theoretically an English coherent sentence that you're like, this is extremely helpful.

Kortney Harmon [00:31:00]:
But even think about that from your, your own organizations now. I just did a session on KPIs because. And how it's changing in an AI world. Did this out of Colorado staffing. And like, think about it like what we used to Require from our teams. You may not have required these things, but like, is it 100 poles a day? Is it four hours of phone time? Is it so many emails? But that is changing. Okay, maybe it's the amount of candidates sourced or just sourcing in general, what it's taken you. But how many hours are we getting back? We kind of did an analysis over a Discover agent.

Kortney Harmon [00:31:32]:
Okay, A sourcing agent. And I asked them the last session, I said, how many hours a week does your team spend sourcing? And they gave me answers. And one of the people, I on average said 13 based on what I have heard, obviously give or take per role. But someone said that they did 20, 20 hours a week for sourcing and agents have dropped it down to 5 max. The implication of that getting again, Justin, you got 11 hours back a week just from your job descriptions. Now you can get 15 hours back from your sourcing. It's crazy to think where we're going to be in just a few months or even a year from now.

Justin bellante [00:32:09]:
No kidding.

Kortney Harmon [00:32:10]:
Okay, so let's talk about the impact. Obviously we are all running in this car with the gas to the pedal or the pedal to the metal, right? But like, how are you measuring AI's impact on your process? Is it time to fill quality of hire? Have you have animals or are you measuring the impact of AI?

Neal Osler [00:32:29]:
We don't have any examples yet because it's still fairly new. I mean, I know a couple of our recruiters have said because of the tool they know directly. They had hires that happened because it was able to extrapolate information from a candidate's resume and then talking to the candidate about it, showing what they came up with. And they were able to glean things from a candidate that they might not have normally, if they would have just stuck to the resume, probably wouldn't have happened. The other thing it's done for us is although we're IT staffing, you know, we have clients now that are asking us to search for non IT type roles. Well, our recruiters are mostly IT and you know, you throw out to them, hey, we've got an electrical engineer. And they're like, I have no idea what that is. What that does slap it into copilot, have it explain it to you.

Neal Osler [00:33:22]:
It cut down the time. It's not hard to go. The hard part is finding those people. But at least it helped reduce the time to figure out what am I really looking for.

Kortney Harmon [00:33:34]:
I love that. Anybody else?

Justin bellante [00:33:36]:
Yeah, sure. Several different areas. I was looking at it earlier, so our response rates for sure. So, like, we do a lot of outreach, like I was saying, and we had our outreach template email pretty much dialed in, and we were getting some good, good response rates. And then when ChatGPT started coming into the sphere, we were now able to really tailor each individual message to each individual person, their background and hope. You know, we're kind of throwing a dart at it, but kind of hopefully speaking to what they're looking for based off of, you know, the information you could find on them. And I mean, it's all about the personalized outreach at scale these days. And we've noticed our response rates definitely going up kind of bounces back and forth with the more people getting hit with emails.

Justin bellante [00:34:26]:
But we do have a pretty significant increase. There's. And then our conversion rate too, because we've really dialed in our screening questions and our discovery questions. With the help of AI, we kind of will collaborate as a team, come up with what we can come up with together, throw it at ChatGPT and say, what else can you come up with? And see if it makes sense. So, yeah, it's helpful for some of our conversion rates. And then really, again, I'll just always go back to, like, my admin time reduction of about 30% is so significant. I'm able to. I mean, like, if I typically bill an average of between 4 and 600,000, if I have an extra 30%, that's a.

Justin bellante [00:35:07]:
You're talking significant revenue here, for sure.

Kortney Harmon [00:35:10]:
I love that. And just to process that and what I heard both of you say separately, but your quality has increased in your output. So not only are you probably moving faster, the quality in which you're representing to your clients and the new gold standard has probably changed than what it was six months ago or a year ago. Do you agree with that?

Justin bellante [00:35:28]:
Oh, wholeheartedly. It reminds me of something said someone said a year ago. It's gonna make the good recruiters great, and the not so good recruiters sound like every other recruiter. So. Yeah, absolutely.

Kortney Harmon [00:35:42]:
Yeah. Chris, what do you think? Anything you think?

Chris Allaire [00:35:45]:
I have yet to come up with a matrix for a measurable roi, to be honest. It's mostly been like, it's really kind of an arbitrary on person to person. So I get. It's kind of like this idea of, like investment in social media. You don't really know what the ROI is. You just kind of have to trust it. You know, your SEO, your geo, the things are moving all these. And then someone finds you and you're like, how did you find you? It's like, I found you on the Internet.

Chris Allaire [00:36:08]:
All right, it works for me. So you're not really. What I found is that I've yet to be able to measure like an ROI on it. All I can do is talk to people about quality, like big things. The quality of JavaScript since I know we've said it a couple times but like this been awesome. The quality of the submittals, the quality of the interviews. Because also you're not from it as a person who interviews people. You have conversations with people.

Chris Allaire [00:36:34]:
You're not now you can just have a genuine conversation. And if you're really good at interviewing people, you know how to follow up. And Kortney, you literally do this for a living, but you're like, you know how to read and then follow up and follow up. And you're not really. And the problem is if you're taking notes, you can't do two things at once. So now your mind's worried about taking notes as opposed to focusing on the conversation. So now you can focus on these conversations and really extract information from people. And the more information you extract from people, the more they realize that like, wow, I've, like, I've done some pretty cool stuff.

Chris Allaire [00:37:12]:
And again, none of it's like, none of it's on your resume, like, or you, you know, bullet pointed your resume. So those types of things have been, those are the types of things I'm like, the, it makes it quicker to submit somebody because now you can take the notes, put them in, pop them out and like, boom, now submit somebody pretty quickly. Better submittals, obviously, job descriptions, you know, if you're chronic add like I am, you know, it takes you 45 minutes for a job description. Now it takes me, me and my, you know, trustee assistant here, you know, 45 seconds and now it's, and then I can go through it. So. But again, it's like the ROI factor or like KPIs on it. Like there's no way to measure this type of stuff. You just, if you're seeing results.

Chris Allaire [00:37:49]:
Yeah. And you're kind of asking people, what do you, what did you do? And then they tell you what they did. You're like, do that again. And that's kind of the best way I can say is like, that's where I mean, if still it's like, I think I'll get creative. I don't know, like, I don't, I don't care what kind of car you drove, but you got here. That's good.

Kortney Harmon [00:38:06]:
And I think we'll get better at that though I do as we continue, just because it'll be like, okay, like Justin, I. I think if we could do some math on some of your stuff. You got it down where I've dropped my administrative task by X. I've done this by X. Out of curiosity, like, is there any other tools? Obviously we talked about LLMs, but like literally in charge of our partnerships, like, I know so many tools that are coming out and Ben Mena yesterday, I don't know, for those of you who haven't go back to his session, he gave a list of tools and I. There is probably no joke, probably 52 tools that all are AI powered, AI driven. Whether it comes from a sourcing tool, a splits management tool, a scheduling platform, a screening tool, which Chris, I'm kind of with you on your thoughts on that. But like AI interviewing agent or a chatbot or a referral or a reference check or like I'm literally like looking down the stuff that we've actually had.

Kortney Harmon [00:39:02]:
Performance management software. There are so many AI tools that are coming out and the baseline of AI is on every single one of them. Have you added any new tools besides an LLM or using Neil, I love that you've mentioned Relate Copilot that you guys are using embedded in your process because it's in your system. Is there any other tools that you've added besides ChatGPT or a note taker?

Justin bellante [00:39:23]:
Yeah, we're doing people GPT right now and Juicebox, that's AI, basically sourcing natural language model. So you can literally put like, hey, I need an urgent care nurse practitioner. Three years experience and it'll just spit out people. So that's pretty cool. Also using Source Whale. Sourcefail is pretty good for that. The reason why I'm hesitant is like, it's just, it's a tool very similar to a lot of these other ones. And it's like it depends on the user using the tool.

Justin bellante [00:39:54]:
Because if you go in there, same issue that Chris was talking about, if you go into Source Whale and you're like, hey, let's just have AI create the whole campaign. And then I'm just going to go in there and just start clicking around, it's going to sound like an AI doing AI, you're going to lose the human element and you still need to have that creative element. But yeah, I know Source Whale has been huge for sure. What other tools are we looking at? I mean, I'm looking at like, what's the one? There's another one. Syncricity. I believe it Is it basically create. There's like AI avatars. You can turn yourself into an AI avatar and then you can send a link to a candidate with you explaining the job.

Justin bellante [00:40:41]:
It's not you, it's an AI bot that video on a video. So it would seem like oh wow, like and so you could do that. Clients have adopted some of that for like onboarding when they finally get someone on board, like hey, have the CEO tell them specifically Kortney about her role and how her role impacts the team and what the team's doing and the good things about their company culture. And that's been one that I'm just kind of, I'm just starting to kind of look into. I'm not, I'm not so sure I want doing the job for me. But the idea is behind some of that, that technology is pretty cool for sure.

Kortney Harmon [00:41:18]:
It's kind of crazy. Neil, have you guys added anything else tech wise?

Neal Osler [00:41:22]:
No, not yet. I mean it's all still pretty new to us even, even to the point I'm still trying to get buy in from some people that, that are, they don't like change or you know, they're scared of losing control. But I mean our next step I think probably more than anything else is to get our account managers more involved in it. I've got one or two that are already pretty heavy into it and I think the results that they're getting help to sell it to others. But there's still some people that are apprehensive about doing it.

Kortney Harmon [00:41:52]:
Yeah, adoption is always a challenge with any tech or tool. But like Justin said, the usage and how every person uses it is what is it that we don't know 70% of most tools that we use anyway. So yeah, it's a constant challenge. Chris, any other tools besides your Google Meet Indemnite?

Chris Allaire [00:42:11]:
We've tried them all. You, you and I had that conversation. I was like, okay, what the hell is going on? Because there's so many things that you're just like, it's overwhelming. So I'm one of those like kind of old dog new tricks. Like I happen to like innovation. I really enjoy like you know, it's an adaptation or extinction. Right. You know, that's my methodology and pretty much everything like, all right, like it or not, this was going.

Chris Allaire [00:42:33]:
So I'm like, you know, hell it like let's try everything, right? Let's try a little bit of this. And you try this and you try this, you try this, we'll try this. And I, I'm not going to say any names by name, but I got to tell you, none of it's worked. It's really an interesting thing because I also know that maybe in tech right now, because of the kind of the. The slower spot than maybe tech's in the valley that we're in right now, you know, these people are just overwhelmed with crap. What I found, I've done six months of analysis on numbers and. And where they come from, et cetera, et cetera. And we had.

Chris Allaire [00:43:01]:
I won't say it by name, but, like, we had one of those engines do a search for us on. For a very specific role. We're scrolling through the results, and we already filled the job. And the person that got the offer and took the job was not even in the top 50th percentile based on their social information. And they had already conducted like eight to ten interviews from us when they talked to Canada. Like, which one was like, dude, if you meet this guy, you're going to hire? And they were like, okay, cool. And so they met him, like, Jesus, we gotta hire this person. And they made him $195,000 offer, and it was accepted, and everyone's happy.

Chris Allaire [00:43:34]:
And according to the Internet tools, this person wasn't even, like, in the top 50th percentile of the search. So I have. I've kind of. I'm not gonna say scrap things, but I've really turned around to my team. I was like, you know what? Like, sometimes too much is too much. Sometimes the bed with too many pillows isn't comfortable. I just like my two pillows. I'm a Chicago guy, you know that out there.

Chris Allaire [00:43:59]:
It's not on my LinkedIn profile, maybe should be, but, like, I just. I like my Chihuahua. I don't need more. I don't need more pillows. And that's. I think everyone's kind of a different situation, whatever market you're in, you know, whether it's tech or healthcare or construction or civil engineering, whatever it is out there, you know, everyone's a little bit different on the way. You track people down. But I know my market, and I've surveyed my market, and they're like, I don't want to hear from you.

Chris Allaire [00:44:22]:
If I email people, my response rate is terrible. If I send you a direct message on LinkedIn, my response rate's over 70%. And I mean, just be like, hey, haven't talked to you in a while. You want to catch up? And it's like, yeah, Chris and I might send them a calendar thing. And next thing you know, they're on my calendar. Ten people like, hey, I emailed you. Like, I didn't see it. And I'm like, you know what? I'm the same way.

Chris Allaire [00:44:43]:
I'm the same way. It's because I'm getting gold. So I think in every different market, like again, I've seen, I just. What I'm finding out is that less is more. Don't overcomplicate things. I, you know, I'm old, I'm simple. Maybe everyone's a little bit different. But for me it's like we have yet to really find anything that's been like this, tipping the scale for us.

Kortney Harmon [00:45:04]:
And Pam made a comment and you kind of said this too in your way of hello, I like that analogy. Everybody likes different kind of setup, right? She said that we have a similar situation as Neil. We are a DoD defense contractor and we have to evaluate the tools to make sure that they're compliant client and do not compromise national security in the way work as much as it could be a selling point or a detriment to the clients in which you serve. So something that you have to think of and who you're working with.

Chris Allaire [00:45:31]:
If you're on any retained searches for like confidential stuff, that's a hard no. Like you've got to be very specific with who you're targeting and why and you can't give any information out until you get that person on with you. And you're like, okay, like, now that I've extracted information from you, now I can talk to you about who I'm recruiting for. So I happen to work a lot of those, like retained kind of confidential searches. And it, you cannot blast. It's uncontrollable who it goes out to because it may hit the person that they're replacing. That's not good.

Kortney Harmon [00:46:03]:
Yeah, go ahead, Justin.

Justin bellante [00:46:04]:
No, I think, I think it's very similar to that of like when Linked, like when I first started recruiting, LinkedIn just came around and everyone was like, oh, recruiters are doomed. Now there's LinkedIn. Now hiring managers have access to the candidates directly. So this technology is going to erode our jobs. Same thing with Indeed, indeed came out and all of a sudden they're like, oh, you know, we have access to talent now. Well, decade later, they still can't find people. Right. And I think that the reality is like just like ChatGPT, like what you said, like there are countless examples where it might not produce exactly what we're looking for at first surface level plans and it might show like the candidates Not.

Justin bellante [00:46:52]:
Not necessarily qualify for the job. But it takes an expert or recruiter, like a real recruiter that understands the fundamentals of recruiter to pick through that, you know, and find the needle in the needle stack. If that makes sense.

Kortney Harmon [00:47:06]:
No, it makes sense. And you have to determine with your team what makes sense. When I did that talk for Colorado, I saw an extreme example of the opposite side, J.P. morgan, and there was another one. They are now interviewing. They're not even interviewing. There's two touch points that are both automatic and they're offering jobs without any human conversations. It's like two touch points and higher.

Kortney Harmon [00:47:30]:
And it's crazy to think that some companies are relying on things like that to happen and how you have to alter your hiring process or what you should look and how you should advise. But I think there's a lot of good in what's happening, but there's also a lot of bad. Like, there's the extreme of both sides. You have to think about us. I mean, and everybody that's listening to this call. How many times do you call? And I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'm like, press zero. Talk to a human.

Kortney Harmon [00:47:59]:
Like, I don't care about anything else. Get me straight past the bs. I want to talk to a human. I don't give a crap about anything else. You guys are all in your head. I'm not the only one. But that's how we also have to look. Do we want to send our candidates to a chatbot or to a video? Justin, I saw the.

Kortney Harmon [00:48:15]:
I could take my video and it could analyze all the podcasts that I do, and I could type a script and it could do video podcast of me and I would never have to do a podcast again. Like, I could literally never be on camera, but it would analyze my actions, my image, my avatar, and do it all for me. And I'm like, that is mind blowing to me.

Justin bellante [00:48:32]:
I think everybody wants a quick fix. Nobody wants to work is what it seems like. And I think the whole reason why, how we earn our fees doing what our clients not only can't do, but don't want to do on their own. And AI is not just going to just fix that, if that makes sense.

Neal Osler [00:48:47]:
I belong to Audible. I don't know if you're familiar with Audible because I listen to a lot of books when I'm driving back forth to work. I've noticed recently they're saying narrated by virtual reader. So I haven't listened to any of those yet.

Kortney Harmon [00:49:01]:
I was gonna Say, have you listened? Has that stopped you? Because that's what I. I think of. Like, if someone knows it's not me.

Neal Osler [00:49:08]:
Yeah.

Kortney Harmon [00:49:08]:
What kind of audience would I even have? Like, would they even want to continue to listen to me? Because I don't know, maybe people don't want to listen to begin with, but idea that if it's not even listening to a real person, what does it matter?

Neal Osler [00:49:20]:
Yeah.

Chris Allaire [00:49:21]:
So I. I'll chime in on that one real quick because there's so. It's interesting. So the. I I guess say quickly. So I'm spiritual person. I meditate every morning and there's. Meditations have been sent to me on YouTube and you can hear that the voice is like some AI robot.

Chris Allaire [00:49:36]:
Yes. And I can't stand it, like, now that these are respectful people and what they do. And I'm like, I can't listen to them anymore because nothing's authentic. So that's like, one thing was, like, it can't be replaced. Kortney, if you ever released by a robot, you and I are going to fight. I will fly to Ohio and it's not going to be good for you. So I'm going to say that we've been trying to find quick fixes for years. We've called it SaaS, platforms, we've called it whatever you want to call it.

Chris Allaire [00:50:02]:
These ideas of digital transformation, these shiny objects that are in there are going to fix all our problems. Right. They're going to solve all our issues. I've been in recruiting business for almost 30 freaking years. And I know it's really funny to say this, but like, a long time ago, you know, we had these things came out. They're called the Dice and Monster Builder and Monster Board. Right. So Dice Monster Board.

Chris Allaire [00:50:21]:
And the true story is if you guys really want to go, I'll use myself a little bit. In 1999, Monster Board was launched. And then we adapted to it. I was pulling people. So Monster Board was based in Boston. I was pulling candidates off the Monster Board and I was placing them at the Monster Board that is a true story, and it's called TNP Worldwide. And they were hiring people that I was sending them, paying me an agency fee that I was pulling off their own product line. And they found out, obviously, because.

Chris Allaire [00:50:51]:
And needless to say, they were pretty upset about it. And they called my boss as choice words. And my boss took me to the back room and gave me a wicked high five. He's like, that was the slickest thing I've ever seen. And I'm like, and this has been going on for as long as I remember in recruiting, and it's still this idea of like, you know what? I hate to say this, but the human. Human beings can't be. We try. We're trying all this stuff, but they can't be replaced.

Kortney Harmon [00:51:17]:
Yeah.

Chris Allaire [00:51:18]:
You know, when you have an idea for a company, the first thing you do is get in touch with a person who can do this with you. Right. That's the. Like, the basis of everything we do is human interaction. So not to. Sorry about my little tangent, but that's always found it interesting. Much as we want to try to replace things with the quick fix, I've always said it's like, you know, it takes a long time to get rid of quick.

Kortney Harmon [00:51:37]:
I was going to ask the question, what aspects of the hiring decision do you need to keep human? But I'm going to ask the opposite question. What aspect of any of your processes do you let AI take over where there's not a. Let's call it human in the loop? Do you give it any. Do you give it that much?

Chris Allaire [00:51:56]:
Rain background checks really handy, especially for soft poles. So I have a system I use. It does a soft pull on it, and I've. It will give you at least enough that you can be like, now we need to invest like the 50 bucks to get, like, a real one that's a good one. If you've got, like, I hate to say this, but, like, spidey sense or like, smell, check if there's resumes that don't make sense or if there's dates that, like, aren't aligned. I'm like, do me a favor, like, take a look at this for me and, like, just double check my work and it'll find. Because you can program it to, like, cross reference a resume with a LinkedIn profile with social media, and it can find things that's like, hey, there's a discrepancy in between this date and the state. And you're like, okay, cool.

Chris Allaire [00:52:39]:
And if I'm negotiating a $300,000 offer for somebody in a C suite position or hire, that and I find this discrepancy that I'm able to be like, hey, Kortney, I need to ask you an honest question. In 2016, 2018, what was going on? And then it's like, wow. So those types of things have been handy to kind of go, like, just do me a favor, double check my work for you real quick to make sure everything looks good.

Neal Osler [00:53:06]:
You know, I think probably more than anything else, we Let AI do the time consuming sourcing piece. You know, anytime you're looking for somebody, when you start doing searches, all of a sudden you've got a thousand resumes that show up while using the tool. It can help you narrow that down a lot more and save you a lot of time on the front end so that your value on the back end becomes greater on candidate prep, candidate presentation and so on.

Kortney Harmon [00:53:34]:
And what tool are you using for that?

Neal Osler [00:53:37]:
Whatever they want to use. I mean, they'll use the AI tool to create their bullion search and then take it out to LinkedIn, indie dice, wherever and pull that in and then also ask the AI, hey, I want to put together an introductory email or whatever it is, however I'm doing it based on this job description.

Kortney Harmon [00:53:59]:
Yeah.

Neal Osler [00:53:59]:
To present to people. I think responses to that have been a lot higher than previously because of it.

Kortney Harmon [00:54:06]:
I like it. Justin, has anything hasn't taken over any of your parts of your process in your hiring? Like, do you say here you can have this part? Yeah.

Justin bellante [00:54:14]:
No. So there are plenty of areas where like it's part of our process now. I will say, like maybe the screening questions, you know, sometimes we'll get a role that maybe we don't do that often or it's a little bit more specific. And then I'll ask, hey, take our standard job screening questions and see like what other questions would I want to know based off what the client's looking for. Here's a copy of the job description and it will, you know, and I like, I'm in healthcare. Like, I'm not a doctor. I don't know, I don't know half the, I don't even know. I don't know how to pronounce half.

Chris Allaire [00:54:46]:
The procedures that these guys do.

Justin bellante [00:54:48]:
But I could sound like I do. You know, I can be like, oh, hey doc, are you doing dense trachs G tubes? You know, and I just learned it five seconds ago off chat GPT. And then on the the other side, the BD side, there's like a big, like a big whale of a client that I'm trying to get. I can role play. I do a lot of role play too. Like, hey, this is the client that I'm talking to. Here's the scenario, here's all the information I've gathered. Here's the info that I've gathered based on, you know, some of the competitors that we're going to be going up against.

Justin bellante [00:55:17]:
How should I navigate this call? And then, you know, she'll start talking basically and we'll do a little role play. I think that helps. I don't know if that's just anxiety inducing for some people or if that's just the way my brain works, but no, it helps me. It's kind of like batting practice before the actual game, if that makes sense. That's sample ways we're doing it.

Kortney Harmon [00:55:38]:
Yeah, I love that because when I was coaching, we literally would have open sessions where you could come and like, it was training, whether it was like your top performers were sitting here and like your rookies could hear your top performers handle a. And how would they respond to resistance? I mean, some of us, I see all of you in office businesses right now, but some of us work virtually so much. We don't get to hear Chris on the phone and hear how amazing he is with a client and hear how he handled a situation. At my last organization, it was really the idea, like, it's like, okay, you had to come into the office for this first six months and after you hit a certain number of revenue, then we could back you down from that. But I love the idea of using AI as a role play or generative. Like, hey, I need you to go in. I need you to figure out how to make your script better. This is the response.

Kortney Harmon [00:56:25]:
The resistance I am getting. We sometimes don't go back to that. Like, we're like, okay, it's so easy to say no and we're okay with saying that they said no and walk away from it. But that's where the rubber meets the road and what makes us different to be able to respond to those things. So I love that you're using it in that way.

Justin bellante [00:56:41]:
Yeah.

Neal Osler [00:56:42]:
Heck yeah.

Justin bellante [00:56:42]:
Like, there are plenty of objections that for years, like, we're not looking to use recruiters at this time, you know, on a cold call. And for many years I'd be like, okay, well, let me know if anything changes, you know. And now I've got a shalhou of responses that, like, there's nothing that they can't say that I don't have an answer to now, basically. Yeah. And that definitely helps for sure.

Chris Allaire [00:57:06]:
No doubt. Something that's actually. It's been interesting. So again, I get these. These things up trained is like, hey, if I'm the CTO of a. Of an E commerce organization in New York City in the sports betting industry, what's going to make me turn my head on why this candidate to get fit. So I've been able to program that and it's like based, you know, and it's so, so kind of like role play, if you will, like chief product officer for, you know, again, sports gambling company, yada, yada.

Neal Osler [00:57:37]:
Right?

Chris Allaire [00:57:37]:
You know, I'm not gambling on sports, actually.

Neal Osler [00:57:40]:
I don't gamble sports.

Chris Allaire [00:57:41]:
But anyways, you're able to spit the stuff in there and it will give you, like, examples like, oh, if I'm this. If I'm this Persona, this is what I'm looking at. So it able to help. Like, I've looked at it like an offer gospel. Like, oh, man, like, there's some things that I never thought of. That's a really good point. That's a really good point. Like, man, these are some really good points.

Chris Allaire [00:57:57]:
So, like, if I have a conversation, you know, what's set up with somebody, I'm like, I can. It's. The preparation on this conversation is a little bit more in depth because there's some organizations that you're like, hey, we found you guys on the Internet, whatever it is. They would love to have a conversation, see if you can fill a couple jobs.

Justin bellante [00:58:10]:
Cool.

Chris Allaire [00:58:11]:
And I'm dumping it all in there and be like, tell me everything I need to know about this person, this organization, where they are, where they've been, what's going on? What's going on in the industry? What's going on with all your competitors? What are the hot buttons of things I need to talk about? What do I need to be aware of? And it's like. And it spits it all back out to you. I'm like, great. You know, take all this and consolidate for me so my dog can read it. And then it spits it all out for me so my dog can read it. And I'm like, this is brilliant. Thanks for this. And then all of a sudden, now I'm having this, like, articulate, intelligent conversation with somebody because, well, I'm amazing.

Chris Allaire [00:58:44]:
Wow. These are really good questions. I'm like, did you know what you did five minutes ago? But now I'm like, now I'm an expert. So, you know, that's my job as a sells. This is my job. I'm a sales guy. My job is to sell really cool things to people. But most of the time, I have no idea what the hell you guys are really doing.

Chris Allaire [00:59:00]:
So I've got to learn this somehow.

Kortney Harmon [00:59:01]:
I love it. I think it's great. Neil, do you have anything to add to any of this craziness? And this is awesome. Amazing.

Neal Osler [00:59:08]:
I'm entertained listening to this.

Justin bellante [00:59:11]:
No, I was gonna say to piggyback off of what Chris was saying one Thing that I just started to dabble into a little bit was you could take kind of that thought process to like the next level when you personalize your outreach based off of and BD personality type. So you can use their LinkedIn profile or whatever information you can gather on them and tell me, hey, based off of the content this person's creating, whether it's their summary, how they write, tell me what their personality type is if you're Myers Briggs or if you're, you know, whatever area you are, and say, okay, now I have this candidate. Tell me what their personality type is and then say, like, how would this personality type really show how valuable they are to this personality type? And then, you know, I could use.

Chris Allaire [01:00:05]:
That for my preps.

Justin bellante [01:00:06]:
I can use that for my outreach to candidates because I'm speaking to their specific personality type. On the BD side, if the guy's a little bit more aggressive, then maybe I might also come at that angle rather than soft and approachable, if that makes sense. So those are some areas where we've been able to do very similar to what Chris is doing, for sure.

Kortney Harmon [01:00:26]:
I love it. I think it's amazing. Now, I'm going to say this before because I don't want to just stop. If anybody has any questions on any ideas of what they're doing or how they should be doing differently, I think that would be amazing. I think I've talked to somebody last week that he said the only way they're using AI, like beyond all the things that you're doing, they wrote code to Every time a LinkedIn person that they connected with, it automatically imported into their ATS and they had ChatGPT write the code for that to bring them into curl8. And I was like, huh? He's like, I did that on Thursday night. I was really proud of myself, which I thought was amazing. I don't think I'm that smart or I even could prompt it that well.

Kortney Harmon [01:01:04]:
But I guess I'm going to leave you with one more question in case anyone else has questions. But where do you think AI is going to be taking your recruiting function or where you're recruiting teams in the next two to three years or what are you keeping an eye out on what you want your organization?

Chris Allaire [01:01:19]:
Oh boy. I'm unfortunately do a lot of information because everybody I talk to CTO and it's. I think what's going to be interesting is what's going to survive. Those of us been long around enough to understand a bubble burst. This is an interesting time. So I Am one of those people, like I'm really curious. We are in a new ecosystem. The dawn of the Internet was a new ecosystem and there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars lost on bunnies bouncing across web pages and selling tables and pet food online.

Chris Allaire [01:01:59]:
Right now there are hundreds of millions of dollars made from the outliers. And people who know that Google was the first one know there's SBS, there's eHow, there's all these other organizations that would like first. So what we are experiencing right now is the dawn of an ecosystem that's been going on for two and a half, almost three years that there's, I'm not going to say the house cards, but it's really loose. And the amount of money that's exchanging hands is not hundreds of millions, it's multiple billions, 30, 40 billions of dollars. And if you read the MIT report that just came out a couple of days, 95% fail rate in in business suites on adaptation of AI gen AI. So I'm one of those people like I keep an arm's distance of everything because I love it, but I don't want to get hooked on it because I'm like, I want to know that you need to make sure you have the skills it takes to do this job add up. You need to be transparent. You need to have communication skills.

Chris Allaire [01:03:13]:
You need to be able to gather information, articulate information, understand the job, understand the organization, understand the business case, what they're building, who's using it, why, that's recruiting you then understand these things. No tool is going to take that from you. It's going to add to it. Had them for years, but if you don't have that, you'll be left in the dust quickly. And if your reliancy is on these tools that are going to go ahead and just do everything for you. I hate to tell you this, but all these LLMs, all these agents that are all tied together, one LLM tied to another LLM is tied to another LL that's tied to another one. The LLM in the middle, which just happened to me, goes down because Chachi BT turned into 5 versus 4. I had a system I was demoing for somebody went down for five days because the LLMs didn't talk to each other anymore or the results were looking for.

Chris Allaire [01:04:07]:
So we had to completely rewrite everything. So these things that are all tied together, what I'm going to say is this. Don't be relying on if you are, you are going to be in trouble. So whereas in the future of the business, God only knows where it was 18 months ago, over six. Six months ago versus two weeks ago is completely different. So what's going to happen in front of us? I don't know. Keep your skills. Start on what you know this job is really all about, because those are irreplaceable.

Chris Allaire [01:04:38]:
The rest of it, see what happens.

Kortney Harmon [01:04:42]:
Revisit this in a year and see where we are, how we. How we thought through that. Justin, what do you think it's going to take in the next two to three years?

Justin bellante [01:04:50]:
Yeah, for recruiting specifically, I mean, I think you're going to see a continue for us to be able to do more with less. I do think that at some point there will be. I've seen some recent talks about it being like there will be a point where it will kind of like not. It will only go so far. We'll see what that looks like. But then on the flip side, I mean, like, you'll seeing new AI companies being so was reading an article about this the other day about basically it took like billions of dollars to build ChatGPT and new companies are now able to. They don't need to invest billions of dollars. They can capitalize on the billions of dollars that ChatGPT had already invested.

Justin bellante [01:05:39]:
And you'll see a lot of these smaller companies being able to start out of nowhere with those language models being like the fundamentals. So you might see like a bunch of new companies popping up and that may mean that costs might go down, which would be cool for some of the platforms that we utilize. But at the same time, I don't want it to be all doom and gloom either. You know, I'm trying to think about the positive aspects of it, but no, I feel similarly to Chris. I mean, I'm very hopeful and skeptical at the same time. We really don't know what's going to happen. I think that you're going to see a lot more people utilizing it. Like a year ago it was only 10% of recruiters are using it.

Justin bellante [01:06:20]:
Now it's probably way up, but you don't want to be relying on it. I see more recruiters becoming more reliant on it and losing that human element and losing like the hard skills that Chris mentioned for sure.

Kortney Harmon [01:06:34]:
Absolutely.

Neal Osler [01:06:34]:
I think Justin hit on it earlier. Great. Recruiters are going to get better, no doubt. I think it's people that are middle of the road. They're probably going to get left behind if they don't embrace some of it. That's kind of some of the challenges we have right now is getting those people to embrace what can help them but not rely on it.

Kortney Harmon [01:06:55]:
Well, I think it's going to be interesting and there's going to continue to be new tech and new processes and new things evolving. So I think the best thing for us in our industry is to ask questions and just be curious. Cautiously curious. Maybe we should say from this panel, cautiously curious as we continue to go into what is next. But I do not see any other questions in the chat. You guys, thank you so very much for your insights and being real on what you've experienced and your thought process. No one has a crystal ball, but the thought processes of how you're thinking, what you're doing, how you're using is always a benefit because there's people that are like, what am I missing? And what can I be doing better? And I think you guys gave some really great examples of what could be happening in an office.

Justin bellante [01:07:43]:
Awesome. Thank you so much for having us.

Chris Allaire [01:07:45]:
Great as always. I love being on these things with you. This is great. This is like a fourth or fifth one together, I think I have to like. And so.

Justin bellante [01:07:56]:
And again, you're.

Chris Allaire [01:07:57]:
I always say this is you're. That you're the voice where my daughter heard you one time from the door and she's like, oh, she's the girl you listen to all the time in the car. Yes, that's right. So.

Kortney Harmon [01:08:11]:
Well, I appreciate you. Your daughter is so sweet and she was so sweet to wave. So tell her I said hi. Everyone else, have a wonderful day and we'll talk soon.

Kortney Harmon [01:08:22]:
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